Interesting Size-Up Video
I came upon this video and thought it was worth a discussion. We don't often get video of before the fire department arrives. I have a question here, and if someone sees something I don't please tell me.
I see a four story apartment building, at least 8 units, with a free burning vented fire on the first floor. There are occupied apartments on the upper floors (we can see the lights are on). I see a main entrance door in the middle of the building. One would expect that there are scissor stairs (or possibly straight run stairs if there are two apartments to a side) that run all the way up. What I don't understand is why we attack this fire from the front porch.
The responsibility of the first line is to protect the interior exposures and secure the stairwell. There very well may be occupants above this fire. Knocking it down from the front porch MAY lead to a quick darkening down, but it still neglects a major tactical point of protecting the stairs.
I'm seriously wondering if I'm missing something here, so if you see anything please chime in.
Cheers
Hey Chris, I dont think youre missing anything... Without being a complete a jerk and ripping on someones elses fire that I wasnt at, I would just say these couple things... First, it seemed like our short 3 minute view of this operation showed some sort of hesitation to enter the front door. I definitely question this, but understand that maybe we cant see something that they did. Second, and this is going to get some grumbles from a couple of my FDNY buddies(sorry E!), I am totally OK with hitting THIS fire from that window for the first 10 seconds if there was a problem gaining entry/access. Of course this particular door does not appear to be "challenging" anybody... I know this goes against the "unburned side" crowd and that several people are letting the air out of my truck tires as we speak, but the fact is that you can easily knock THIS PARTICLUAR fire with a solid stream if there is ANY hold up in entry. To me, this is protecting other occupants in the building. I am with you on protecting the stairs... absolutely a must! But if you are putting this fire out from the window for some reason(delayed access through front door) then I still think you are doing a better job of protecting the interior stairs as well as trapped occupants on upper floors, then if you waited for 2 minutes while others struggle with a tough door(if thats the problem). Again, just from our limited viewing of this job, I am not seeing a complicated forcible entry problem at the front door... maybe interior was a different story? I would say at the first opportunity, move inside and get the line working if possible.
ReplyDeleteChris, First of all I am impressed that these guys had at least 4 and perhaps 5 on the rig. Let’s talk about what looks good. One, they pulled past the fire building leaving the address for the ladder. Two, each guy obviously had a predesignated assignment and each of them looked like they knew what they were doing upon arrival. Now for a few thoughts, they stretched two hand lines simultaneously and given that they appeared to have a plan I am going to give them the benefit that they were planning ahead and were planning on taking the second line inside and to the floor above. Given the excellent staffing they could handle stretching two lines at this. What I think might be missed here is that the front door to this apartment is on that left side of the front porch and that they were told by the safety vest guy that the window on the side was open and that they could push it right out that window. The best angle for the nozzlemen to try and push it out the side window was to attack it from that front window. They went right in the front door though. I would imagine from their perspective the window and the actual front door offered the same tactical advantage.
ReplyDeleteGiven the occupancy type, layout, fire conditions, I would attack this fire as a first floor brownstone or attached garage fire. In other words, two lines. I would have expected that same type of attack of the first floor through that front door/window and I would have wanted an additional line stretched inside for any interior extension (stairwell/public hallway in this case or above).
If they had stretched interior and used any secondary door off the hallway/stairwell they could have created an untenable environment for any occupants using those stairs, if the fire had been more involved. Much like an attached garage fire in an occupied building, stretch interior to protect life and property, ensure the man door is closed, and put the fire out from that front access.
So I actually think these guys did a good job, the safety vest guy had a plan, the guys carried out their positions/roles, they stretched two lines, had ventilation upon arrival, appeared to have the fire confined to one room, and extinguished quickly and directly. Yes the water was applied through a window but really was it any different than the door right next to it? Don’t get me wrong I work for a department that operates far too often from windows and understand the taboo but we need to consider everything here. What would you have preferred and why?
I noticed the same thing about the front door actually being on the left side of the porch, and looking closely, it looks like the central stair simply accesses each porch, and the unit's front door is to the outside of that porch. That said, besides extension through the wall, the stairs should remain tenable. Other than that, as a Truck engineer, I really appreciate the engine's placement.
ReplyDeleteLove the conversation. I purposely didn't highlight the positives here in order to get some conversation going. Let me start there.
ReplyDelete1. Perfect positioning on the Engine. You can tell the crew knows what to do and is practicing good overall awareness.
2. Lead out was smooth. No one screaming.
3. Quick knock down.
I am willing to bet that they looked in the front door (it's glass) and saw that there was no open door threatening the stairs. The logical conclusion then would be to knock it down from the front so as to avoid charging the stairwell with heat, smoke, and steam.
My biggest reason for throwing this one out was to stimulate some conversation. Thanks Franz, Gary, and our mystery caller for chiming in! Cheers